Subject: What about pear wood?

From: "Alexandros Tzimeros" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:04:18 +0300

Hi dear all,

after sorting out the disadvantages of mahogany in lute construction,
can we discuss about pearwood? It is a wood that I rarely see being used in 
lutes.
The point is that I like it a lot but I'm a bit hesitant to use it.
Any opinions?

Thanks,
Alex

---

From: Mustafa Umut Sarac <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:16:03 +0300

Pearwood is used by Turkish Luthiers for the body of Turkish lutes for
   more than hundreds of years .

   Umut

   --

---

From: William Samson <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 07:50:12 +0100 (BST)

Dear Umut,

   That's very interesting.  Thomas Mace, in his book 'Musick's Monument'
   lists pearwood among the woods from which 'very good lutes' can be
   made.  And yet, nowadays, we seldom find it used in the making of
   replicas of historic lutes.

   Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

   Bill
   From: Mustafa Umut Sarac <[email-masked]>
   To: Alexandros Tzimeros <[email-masked]>
   Cc: [email-masked]
   Sent: Tuesday, 8 May 2012, 7:16
   Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?
     Pearwood is used by Turkish Luthiers for the body of Turkish lutes
   for
     more than hundreds of years .
     Umut
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---

From: Timothy Motz <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 08:27:06 -0400

Alex,
Pear is both denser and harder than hard maple, so it would make a fine bowl for a lute.  I don't know how easily it bends, but since Mustafa says it's used for ouds, it must bend decently.  The one time I used it was for a flat-backed instrument, so I didn't have to bend it.  It took forever to sand it down to the proper thickness on my little sander, but it certainly helped project the sound.  I think it's used a lot for wooden flutes and recorders.

I would think the reasons it's not used more is because it doesn't have much of a figure and isn't as dramatic looking as the tropical hardwoods and at least in the US it's rather scarce and expensive.  There are no old-growth rain forests of European pear to clear-cut.  I've never seen it in my local hardwood dealer's stock.  The pear that I used was from Luthier's Mercantile and I've never seen it in their list of available back and side woods since that one time.

Tim

On May 8, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Alexandros Tzimeros wrote:

> can we discuss about pearwood? It is a wood that I rarely see being used in lutes.
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

---

From: "David Brown" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 09:21:33 -0400

Hello Timothy and Alexandros,

I would tend to disagree that steamed Swiss pear is more dense and harder
than hard maple.  I would describe it as closer to a softer maple but with
different qualities and specifications support this.

I would describe it as a very "creamy" wood with a very fine grain and an
absolute (no pun intended) pleasure to work and carve. It is a fairly stable
wood. You can find it with a wavy figure and sometimes slightly curly. I use
it regularly and it makes a very nice lute bowl. It is easy to find, but be
sure you don't get "Australian" pear as I've seen it listed. This is much
harder to work than Swiss pear. Pear from the US is harder to find, but is
also a wonderful wood. I have a whole trees worth that was cut from a 19c.
farm site that was destined to be terra-formed by the interstate system. 

As a somewhat obtuse historic reference, the Este harp which was built
around 1581 has some parts made of pear and others of curly maple.

Many rosette makers use it as the carved "frame" for the parchment and wood
rosettes. At one point, many makers used it for pegs. It was often used for
blocks for prints.

Sincerely and respectfully,

David

David B. Brown, Luthier

 
-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of Timothy Motz
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:27 AM
To: Alexandros Tzimeros
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?

Alex,
Pear is both denser and harder than hard maple, so it would make a fine bowl
for a lute.  I don't know how easily it bends, but since Mustafa says it's
used for ouds, it must bend decently.  The one time I used it was for a
flat-backed instrument, so I didn't have to bend it.  It took forever to
sand it down to the proper thickness on my little sander, but it certainly
helped project the sound.  I think it's used a lot for wooden flutes and
recorders.

I would think the reasons it's not used more is because it doesn't have much
of a figure and isn't as dramatic looking as the tropical hardwoods and at
least in the US it's rather scarce and expensive.  There are no old-growth
rain forests of European pear to clear-cut.  I've never seen it in my local
hardwood dealer's stock.  The pear that I used was from Luthier's Mercantile
and I've never seen it in their list of available back and side woods since
that one time.

Tim

---

From: Alfred Eberle <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT)

I'll chime in here and mention that I've recently begun a lute with a bowl made 
of lightly-figured Swiss Pear.  This is the first time I've used it for a lute 
bowl.  I sourced and purchased a seasoned 'slab' of pear tree, enough for four 
lute bowls, six lute necks, and numerous bridges and pegs.  In density and 
hardness (and behavior) it seems closest to Big Leaf Maple.  Bending has so far 
been fairly easy, with the usual care needed when bending figured wood.  It'll 
be a while before the results are audible, but so far it's been pleasant and 
stable to work with.  

I did some tests on scraps of this wood for the finish.  I found that with an 
oil varnish the finish is very nice, but looks a little bit 'dirty'.  French 
polishing with shellac has produced very beautiful results - looks cleaner and 
there's a bit more visual pop of the figure than with the oil varnish.

I'm using holly spacers between the pearwood ribs.  With finish applied the 
color of the pear is a delicious warm red brown which contrasts well with the 
holly spacers.

It's definitely tricky to source the figured wood in dimensions large enough to 
cut into lute ribs - I was very fortunate to find a piece that was a little over 

six feet in length x 19" wide x 14/4 in thickness.  But oh so worth it.  If 
anyone needs the source I got my pearwood from, please let me know offlist and 
I'll be happy to give you their contact info.  I believe they have at least one 
more slab near the dimensions of the one I bought.

Alfred

in the Bay Area

----- Original Message ----
From: David Brown <[email-masked]>
To: Timothy Motz <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 6:21:57 AM
Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?

David

David B. Brown, Luthier

-----Original Message-----

Alex,

Tim

---

From: Mustafa Umut Sarac <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:12:57 +0300

Turkish luthiers prefers to use pearwood at the body of long necked
   lutes like cura is the smallest and divan baglama is the biggest.

   But they dont bend it but carve out the intenal and uses as solid body.

   Umut

   --

---

From: Steve Ramey <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:38:52 -0700 (PDT)

As you progress, photos, photos, photos, please.
   TIA
   Steve
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Alfred Eberle <[email-masked]>
   To: [email-masked]
   Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 11:58 AM
   Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?
   I'll chime in here and mention that I've recently begun a lute with a
   bowl made
   of lightly-figured Swiss Pear.  This is the first time I've used it for
   a lute
   bowl.  I sourced and purchased a seasoned 'slab' of pear tree, enough
   for four
   lute bowls, six lute necks, and numerous bridges and pegs.  In density
   and
   hardness (and behavior) it seems closest to Big Leaf Maple.  Bending
   has so far
   been fairly easy, with the usual care needed when bending figured
   wood.  It'll
   be a while before the results are audible, but so far it's been
   pleasant and
   stable to work with.
   I did some tests on scraps of this wood for the finish.  I found that
   with an
   oil varnish the finish is very nice, but looks a little bit 'dirty'.
   French
   polishing with shellac has produced very beautiful results - looks
   cleaner and
   there's a bit more visual pop of the figure than with the oil varnish.
   I'm using holly spacers between the pearwood ribs.  With finish applied
   the
   color of the pear is a delicious warm red brown which contrasts well
   with the
   holly spacers.
   It's definitely tricky to source the figured wood in dimensions large
   enough to
   cut into lute ribs - I was very fortunate to find a piece that was a
   little over
   six feet in length x 19" wide x 14/4 in thickness.  But oh so worth
   it.  If
   anyone needs the source I got my pearwood from, please let me know
   offlist and
   I'll be happy to give you their contact info.  I believe they have at
   least one
   more slab near the dimensions of the one I bought.
   Alfred
   in the Bay Area

   ----- Original Message ----
   From: David Brown <[1][email-masked]>
   To: Timothy Motz <[2][email-masked]>
   Cc: [3][email-masked]
   Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 6:21:57 AM
   Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?
   Hello Timothy and Alexandros,
   I would tend to disagree that steamed Swiss pear is more dense and
   harder
   than hard maple.  I would describe it as closer to a softer maple but
   with
   different qualities and specifications support this.
   I would describe it as a very "creamy" wood with a very fine grain and
   an
   absolute (no pun intended) pleasure to work and carve. It is a fairly
   stable
   wood. You can find it with a wavy figure and sometimes slightly curly.
   I use
   it regularly and it makes a very nice lute bowl. It is easy to find,
   but be
   sure you don't get "Australian" pear as I've seen it listed. This is
   much
   harder to work than Swiss pear. Pear from the US is harder to find, but
   is
   also a wonderful wood. I have a whole trees worth that was cut from a
   19c.
   farm site that was destined to be terra-formed by the interstate
   system.
   As a somewhat obtuse historic reference, the Este harp which was built
   around 1581 has some parts made of pear and others of curly maple.
   Many rosette makers use it as the carved "frame" for the parchment and
   wood
   rosettes. At one point, many makers used it for pegs. It was often used
   for
   blocks for prints.
   Sincerely and respectfully,
   David
   David B. Brown, Luthier
   -----Original Message-----
   From: [4][email-masked]
   [mailto:[5][email-masked]] On Behalf
   Of Timothy Motz
   Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:27 AM
   To: Alexandros Tzimeros
   Cc: [6][email-masked]
   Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?
   Alex,
   Pear is both denser and harder than hard maple, so it would make a fine
   bowl
   for a lute.  I don't know how easily it bends, but since Mustafa says
   it's
   used for ouds, it must bend decently.  The one time I used it was for a
   flat-backed instrument, so I didn't have to bend it.  It took forever
   to
   sand it down to the proper thickness on my little sander, but it
   certainly
   helped project the sound.  I think it's used a lot for wooden flutes
   and
   recorders.
   I would think the reasons it's not used more is because it doesn't have
   much
   of a figure and isn't as dramatic looking as the tropical hardwoods and
   at
   least in the US it's rather scarce and expensive.  There are no
   old-growth
   rain forests of European pear to clear-cut.  I've never seen it in my
   local
   hardwood dealer's stock.  The pear that I used was from Luthier's
   Mercantile
   and I've never seen it in their list of available back and side woods
   since
   that one time.
   Tim
   On May 8, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Alexandros Tzimeros wrote:
   > can we discuss about pearwood? It is a wood that I rarely see being
   used
   in lutes.
   > [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:[email-masked]
   2. mailto:[email-masked]
   3. mailto:[email-masked]
   4. mailto:[email-masked]
   5. mailto:[email-masked]
   6. mailto:[email-masked]
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

---

From: Alfred Eberle <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:41:06 -0700 (PDT)

Glad to!  I do have a photo of the pearwood ribs laid out with the
   figure showing.  Is there a place to upload photos to the list?  If
   not, I'll be happy to send it privately.

   Thanks,

   Alfred

   From: Steve Ramey <[email-masked]>
   To: Alfred Eberle <[email-masked]>;
   "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
   Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 1:38:55 PM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?
   As you progress, photos, photos, photos, please.
   TIA
   Steve
     __________________________________________________________________

   -----Original Message-----
   From: [4][email-masked]
   [mailto:[5][email-masked]] On Behalf
   Of Timothy Motz
   Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:27 AM
   To: Alexandros Tzimeros
   Cc: [6][email-masked]
   Subject: [LUTE-BUILDER] Re: What about pear wood?
   Alex,
   Pear is both denser and harder than hard maple, so it would make a fine
   bowl
   for a lute.  I don't know how easily it bends, but since Mustafa says
   it's
   used for ouds, it must bend decently.  The one time I used it was for a
   flat-backed instrument, so I didn't have to bend it.  It took forever
   to
   used
   in lutes.

   --

References

   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

---

From: "Alexandros Tzimeros" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:53:14 +0300

Thank you all for your answers.
It seems that most makers don't use pear wood just for aesthetic reasons.
I love its colour though and think that I'll go to get a block tomorrow. I'm 
really
curious for the result.

Alex

---

From: Yaron Naor <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 16:31:13 +0200

Dear Alex,
   During my work I had 8 different pear colors from almost white to peach
   color...
   There is no ONE pear wood, it diverse very much
   Easy to glue and bend, enjoy the work
   [1]https://picasaweb.google.com/116712080015313073524
   Yaron Naor
   On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Alexandros Tzimeros
   <[2][email-masked]> wrote:

     Thank you all for your answers.
     It seems that most makers don't use pear wood just for aesthetic
     reasons.
     I love its colour though and think that I'll go to get a block
     tomorrow. I'm really
     curious for the result.
     Alex
     To get on or off this list see list information at
     [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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   2. mailto:[email-masked]
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