Subject: RE: [VIHUELA] Early romantic guitaRe: string height

From: "Braig, Eugene" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 21:43:51 +0000

I have a few 19th-c. guitars, originals and copies, but none in the French style.  My favorite is an original by Gebruder Placht of Pest, very much in the typical Viennese, Stauffer/Legnani tradition but without an adjustable neck.  If it would be of interest--measured as you've requested, Martyn--string height at 12 is approx. 4.9 mm from the fingerboard and 3.6 mm from the fret at E and approx. 4.0 mm from the fingerboard and 2.6 mm from the fret at e'.  It's scale length is 604 mm.  It's bridge saddle is fret wire and thus not easily adjusted.

Best,
Eugene

________________________________________
From: [email-masked] [[email-masked]] on behalf of Martyn Hodgson [[email-masked]]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:05 AM
To: Vihuela Dmth; Early Guitar Dmth
Subject: [VIHUELA] Early romantic guitaRe: string height

   I'd be grateful if players of the early six string guitar (say, 1800 -
   1830) could let me know what string height they find best on the
   instrument. To be specific: by string height I mean the distance
   required to depress the string to the fingerboard (not to the top of
   the fret - the usual 'action' measurement) at the 12th fret,  for both
   the first and sixth string.

   I've fairly recently dug out my Grobert copy for a few shows and, as I
   start to pluck harder, I find I'm getting some string rattles (possibly
   on adjacent frets) in the lower positions (ie on frets 1 to 5) on the
   first and second strings.  Whether or not the belly has sunk I don't
   know (it doesn't seem to have done) but the depressing distance (as
   described above) of the first string at the 12th fret is only 3.0mm
   which seems low by modern guitar standards. The frets are about 0.9mm
   high so the 12th fret 'action', if you prefer that measure, is only
   some 2.1mm.  Clearly this all makes for ease of playing in the higher
   positions - but at the expense of some string rattles.

   So in making the necessary adjustments it would be interesting to know
   what others use on similar instruments. My first thoughts are to
   heighten the bridge saddle to increase the depression distance of the
   first string at the 12th fret to between 3.5 and 4.0mm (ie an 'action'
   of between 2.6 and 3.1mm).

   MH

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From: "Braig, Eugene" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:17:19 +0000

...And please forgive my incorrect and hastily typed contractions.

E
________________________________________
From: [email-masked] [[email-masked]] on behalf of Braig, Eugene [[email-masked]]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 5:43 PM
To: Vihuela Dmth; Early Guitar Dmth
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Early romantic guitaRe: string height

Best,
Eugene

   MH

   --

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From: Martyn Hodgson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:21:39 +0100 (BST)

Thank you. I was specifically asking about the string height on the 6
   string guitar c 1800-1830 with fixed metal frets - not lutes or other
   guitars.  If you have any experience of this particular instrument I'd
   be grateful for your views.

   MH
   --- On Sat, 20/4/13, Azalais <[email-masked]> wrote:

     From: Azalais <[email-masked]>
     Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Early romantic guitaRe: string height
     To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email-masked]>
     Date: Saturday, 20 April, 2013, 19:46

   It varies by instrument.  On some I have gut frets and on some metal,
   and the lengths vary from 480mm to an archlute!   One of the lowest is
   a lightly tensioned vihuela, and on that one there is about 3mm
   clearance between the top of the gut fret and the bottom of the string.
   (I have more trouble with double courses hitting each other and have
   had to re-drill bridges to increase string to string widths, when I
   wanted to use low tension twisted basses.)
   I have several mid-length vihuelas and baroque guitars  (shorter than
   650mm) that can be tuned to E or G...  At E (aA5) a few of them do
   rattle occasionally  but that vanishes when I have them tuned to G with
   a bit more tension.
   On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Martyn Hodgson
   <[1][email-masked]> wrote:

   Thank you.  Out of interest, what depression distance (or 'action' if
   you prefer this measurement) have you got on the first string at 12
   fret?

   MH
   --- On Sat, 20/4/13, Azalais <[2][email-masked]> wrote:

     From: Azalais <[3][email-masked]>
     Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Early romantic guitaRe: string height
     To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[4][email-masked]>
     Date: Saturday, 20 April, 2013, 17:09

   Before physically modifying the guitar, you might want to experiment
   with using slightly higher tension strings.  I've had very good luck
   with Seaguar fluorocarbon fishing line, which has the same mass as gut
   (similar tension at a given diameter), and it comes in many diameters.
   (Use the gut setting in the string calculator to find the right
   diameter)
   You could also experiment by adding one or more thin strips of white
   index card material under the nut.
   Az
   On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Martyn Hodgson
   <[5][email-masked]> wrote:
   > [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

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   2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=[email-masked]
   3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=[email-masked]
   4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=[email-masked]
   5. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=[email-masked]
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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From: Martyn Hodgson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:22:23 +0100 (BST)

MH

   MH

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References